Feminist Philosophers

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Loving Wife Spanking? August 24, 2007

Filed under: autonomy,domestic violence — stoat @ 10:42 am

 spanking!

Ok, so this is probably not what the folks advocating ‘Christian Domestic Discipline’ , as discussed over at feministing, have in mind…

Here’s what the CDD have to say about it:

  • ‘A Christian Domestic Discipline marriage is one that is set up according to Biblical standards; that is, the husband is the authority in the household. The wife is submissive to her husband as is fit in the Lord and her husband loves her as himself. He has the ultimate authority in his household, but it is tempered with the knowledge that he must answer to God for his actions and decisions. He has the authority to spank his wife for punishment, but in real CDD marriages this is taken very seriously and usually happens only rarely. CDD is so much more than just spanking. It is the husband loving the wife enough to guide and teach her, and the wife loving the husband enough to follow his leadership. A Christian marriage embodies true romance and a Christian man a true hero.’

For those interested, this publication will be informative, no doubt: chapters include ‘How much is Enough’, and ‘Uncooperative wife’.  

Perhaps you’d rather peruse this, an excerpt from which reminds us:

 ‘Just as a parent would never stop to ask permission to chastise his child, a husband should not have to obtain consent to discipline his wife; however, our legal system has put him in the position of having to do so… our culture is turned upside down in so many other things’

There is in fact a chapter on ‘the meaning of consent’, which I’d love to read. Interesting issues about autonomy raised: one might hold that women who choose this do so autonomously, and so all’s well. Indeed, there’s a blog where one woman writes of her being ‘disciplined’, on which she writes:

‘ My submission is quite voluntary.  I have had a few that said they don’t know why women need it.  Well I think I could have been single and led my life just fine but in order to be a couple someone has to be in charge and someone has to follow.’ 

Of course, voluntary does not mean autonomous. And if those involved – including these women – hold that women’s status is like that of children, then interesting issues about consent raised: there are (many) circumstances under which children’s consent is not valid.

It puts me in mind of Hill’s (1985) article, ‘Servility and self-respect’, in which he claims that certain deferential and servile behaviours involve a misunderstanding of one’s agential status, or a failure to care properly about it…

 

69 Responses to “Loving Wife Spanking?”

  1. Jender Says:

    Yikes. Looks like CDD is also the place to go for enormous, blousy, and modest– yet crotchless– undergarments. And for herbal remedies for bruising.

  2. ck Says:

    I think your image says it all. Romantic spanking fiction? This is just a subset of people with fetishes that they’ve draped in theology for justification.

    In all my time in Christian conservative circles (the first 24 years of my life), I’ve never seen anything like this. “Aftercare lotion”? Ugh.

  3. heather Says:

    i love to be spanked so id be bad all the time

  4. bad tushy Says:

    my hubby needs to read this

  5. Linda Says:

    This may be similar to takeninhand.com but at least the guys at TiH dont attempt to justify and rationalise is with religion.

    Interesting posts though… Wondering if people are reverting to what they see as traditional ‘in house’ roles?

    regards
    Linda

  6. searching for answers Says:

    I try to tell my husband, I’m spiraling out of control and need him to help me straighten out. I feel safe in his arms, but as soon as I’m out of his arms, I loose the will to change. I told him I need to be over his lap. He said,”we don’t want to go there: controlling”

  7. Dee Says:

    Many women prefer to be in a marriage or romantic relationship where the man is clearly the dominant partner. I always knew I wanted a man who was dominant in the bedroom, but more recently I came to realize that I want a man whose leadership and dominance I could trust outside the bedroom as well.

    That requires a large degree of strength, love, integrity, and masculine confidence on the man’s part. He has to be willing to put the time and energy and thoughtfulness into the relationship, in order to be able to take the lead in a way that will make both partners happy. And it’s not just about spanking, because that is not the only means by which a dominant man may physically enforce his wife’s obedience. It may be the most common, but if he’s creative then he can find a lot of other ways to use his superior male strength to reinforce his dominance.

    The Taken In Hand website and forum is the best place around for discussing the dynamics of a male-dominated marriage: http://www.takeninhand.com
    As a previous comment said, the Taken In Hand viewpoint is not religious at all; rather it’s about the psychological dynamics of masculine dominance and feminine surrender.

    One other difference is that many women at the Taken In Hand website might describe themselves as feisty or resistant, instead of compliant. They want their man to take charge, but they will still put up some resistance to that, from time to time. So it becomes part of his job to overcome that resistance, to actively conquer her and control her, and subjugate her to his will. It might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but if you read through the postings there, by many contributors, it’s clear that there are a lot of men and women who really enjoy this kind of relationship.

    I highly recommend TIH, especially to the last woman who posted, “Searching For Answers” – try reading the essays there, and if you find it appealing then you might share it with your husband. There is nothing at all wrong with the man being “controlling” and dominating, provided that that is also what his wife wants. And it can make for a very passionate and romantic marriage, one that keeps the fires of Eros burning for a long time. (It also tends to cut down on silly squabbles and petty power struggles, if the man is clearly acknowledged as the boss.)

    Feminism is supposed to be all about women being free to make their own choices, right? Well, many women would freely choose a dominant man for their husband; but when we do, then the feminists will often denounce us for that choice, and try to impose their own values on us. Pretty ironic, that.

  8. mary Says:

    I have been married for 25 years and spanked since the begginning ( we agreed this was proper before the weddding),CDD was not popular then and we are not very religeous, it just seemed right and natural. I want him to be in charge and feel like a man,but I am very intelligent and have a strong will so without this I might not have learned to be submissive. We have a gret marriage/family. Seems pretty normal and I think in the old days was the norm. I do wish I had friends who could admit to it to it and we could talk openly.(without seeking special interest groups).Seems like today a good ,obedient, lovingly disciplined wife is a dirty little secret adn we can only talk about it online. In the old days it was a matter of fact and families were more intact. Who says women are happier now that we work long hours and are out of touch with our subbmissive sides? What women isn’t more attracted to a dominant,carin,attentive man than a weak,preoccupied one?

  9. mary Says:

    excuse the typos-late and tired.

  10. P. Burke Says:

    Is this post still getting responses? Wow. I may as well throw in my two cents worth, since I seem to be halfway between the feminist philosophers and the CDD people on this one.

    I am a heterosexual woman, and what BDSM people call a “switch”. That means I switch between the dominant role and the submissive role, depending on partner and/or mood. I don’t think it’s automatically bad for women to take on submissive sexual roles. (None of the feminist philosophers have said that it’s bad, but I get the feeling that anything smacking of BDSM is getting a strong unreflective “eww” response from stoat. Which is understandable–real sexual exploitation is genuinely gross–but it’s also possible for feelings of disgust to obscure subtleties.)

    So first: CDD women are feeling urges to be sexually submissive, and that’s common (for men and women), understandable, and OK in my book. (I am genuinely not sure if the owners of this blog would agree with me.) But second: It is *not OK* to claim that all women should be submissive just because you are. (I, for one, would be utterly miserable if I were dominated by a man 24/7.) And the fact that you have a particular kink does not in any way justify the societal oppression of women, which is real and not just some fun bedroom game.

    Third thought, for Mary: Don’t be knocking submissive men. Like submissive women, submissive men can be strong, competent, and smart. Lots of women (including myself) are attracted to submissive men, but not because they are weak or preoccupied. The opposite of “dominant” is not “pathetic”.

    Last thought: There’s an SM feminist blog that may be of interest (at least to those of you who are not so wigged out by the idea of eroticizing dominance and submission that you want to wash your brains out immediately). I’m not affiliated with it; I just think it’s a good resource.

    Back to lurking. (Btw, I appreciate and admire the feminist philosophers; I usually just don’t have a ton to add to your posts.)

  11. stoat Says:

    Hi P. Burke,
    This post brings a lot visitors to our site, perhaps not all of them looking for feminist philosophers initially – i think that’s why the comments keep coming in!
    I’m glad the ongoing stream prompted you to comment.

    I certainly didn’t intend to give off an unreflective ‘eww’ about BDSM. What I find more troubling are the two aspects you raise: i) being submissive in many aspects of a relationship (though even still, it might suit some, and I genuinely haven’t got a settled view on what I think to such cases…other than ‘not for me’!), and ii) propounding submissiveness for all women.

    thanks for the link – will check it out.
    and thanks for the comment! glad you like the site :)

  12. Sophie Says:

    I think it’s important to make very clear what these doctrines imply in their version of ‘submissive’. Leaving aside the bedroom antics (as much as that’s ever possible) the quoted passages in the original post are implying subjugation, and the idea that a woman’s place is necessarily subordinate to that of a man. This is not the same as allowing one partner in a relationship to take the lead more than the other- more usually the male- which happens in every relationship. Even between friends of the same sex its usual for one person to be more ‘dominant’. I think its perfectly alright to be content to leave your man more ‘in charge’, what’s important is to know that’s not a god-given or naturally deserved role and that the balance of power is always open to negotiation.
    Those woman who boast that their husband ‘would do anything for me’ and those men who say their wives “do as they’re told”- it’s all of a piece. A power with a romantic ring but is degrading and vulgar in practice. Enough of the matrimonial blackmail- let’s fight it out like gentlemen. (oops. apologies for long post!)

  13. P. Burke Says:

    Stoat, thank you for the clarification; it sounds like we’re basically in agreement. I just sometimes worry that submissive women will think feminism is incompatible with their felt experience, and will find sexist and/or dangerous ways to go about fulfilling their preferences as a result. So you could take the previous comment as more of a clarificatory note than an objection. (Really, I guess I’m hoping that some of the CDD women who stop by will go read the SM feminists blog and be turned on to feminism.)

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  15. Monkey Says:

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  16. its me Says:

    my husband and i love this. it does help me to focus mentally and spiritually. it helps him to know his role in my life. i am an intelligent entrepeneur with an mba.

  17. Ed Says:

    My wife and I are a DD couple. I’m a Dominant, she’s a submissive. We met years ago on a spanking kink discussion forum. I spank her for discipline, for fun, for stress relief, (hers) for foreplay, and other reasons that aren’t coming to me off the top of my head. That is how much we are into spanking.

    What some feminists fail to understand about DD relationships like ours, is that we not only chose this, but we both want this, and actively sought it out. She has made a choice to live as she desires to live, and it does not affect anyone outside of our marriage. We are both happy with it. But because it is what we want and how we live, doesn’t in any way mean that we think anyone else should have to live the same way. We want everyone to live as they want to live, not as they are told they should want to live.

    Because I expect my wife to submit to me, does not mean at all that I expect or even imply that all women should submit to men. It’s what we want – it’s what we do. To insist that she should live any other way then how she should choose is I think… well, oppressive.

    But this CDD crap makes me sick to my stomach. I could never spank a woman without consent. And by consent, I mean freely given, as an expressed desire – not by coercion. This CDD is the same thing that has always ever been wrong with religion – saying you must live a certain way because it’s, not how you want to live, but, how ‘God’ wants you to live.

    Now, you can believe whatever you like about God, and that’s fine, as long as your beliefs are tolerant of those who believe otherwise. So if a woman believes this and enters into such a relationship freely, then good for her. I can tell her how naive I believe her to be, but she doesn’t have to change her lifestyle because I disagree with her reasons…

    But personally, I don’t see a difference between bullying someone into something against their will with threats of physical violence, and doing it with threats of eternal damnation and holy wrath. (should the target actually believe in and fear such things) I can only feel sorry for women who enter into a DD relationship when they DON’T want to, but are coerced into it because they are made to believe God wants it of them.

    PS. Just fyi – if anyone claims to KNOW what God thinks or wants, about ANYTHING, they want you to buy something. (or has a worse motivation)

  18. dianeca Says:

    Amazing, truth really is stranger then fiction!! Of course all my muslim clients will be happy to know that Christians beat their women too!!

  19. Ackroyd_Drattit Says:

    I don’t understand half, or more than half, of the comments here. Am I so different after all? I don’t understand this “dominant-submissive” compass. Spanking can be very exciting with a person who is turned on by it. It’s foreplay but exciting enough in itself–who needs post-spanking coition to improve it? Nothing dominant or submissive about it, which is why I enjoy both spanking and being spanked. We don’t mess around with permanent roles and we won’t have any truck with “being told” what to do. If she acted in a permanent way like “a dom” I’d divorce her.

    At first, it was not so enjoyable as my wife was too worried about hurting me and didn’t hit me hard enough, but even the first time (caught on tape), her eyes got bright and she flushed and grinned as she hit me harder as I told her to do. For her part, she too love to see my face on the telly monitor when she’s being spanked. She has a truly gorgeous bottom, plump, wide-hipped, thin-waisted, dimpled above. I love to spank it.

  20. Alison Says:

    Since there’s a few comments here thought I’d leave my own tuppence-worth.

    My girlfriend and I practise Domestic Discipline with myself as Head-of-Household. Lesbian DD relationships seem to be a tiny minority of all DD relationships, and almost the only reference you can find on the web is pornographic images clearly aimed at men who like to combine their dominatrix fetishes with their lesbian voyeurism! My partner asked me a while back how I lined up spanking her with my feminism (she isn’t feminist) and really there was little to say – with us both being female I don’t really have issues with how we distribute our respective power. I personally feel uncomfortable with DD in a M/f setting (with the male as Top) but am compelled to say that it is fine as long as both parties are consenting. My knee-jerk reaction is still ‘urgh yuk’ though, because of the already existent power imbalances and possibility of ‘consenting’ to oppression. Those who claim that women *should* submit to men, whether for religious or pseudo-biological reasons, are simply sexist and wrong. DD is lifestyle CHOICE and is entered into on the basis of the needs of those within it. If it is not a choice then the notion of consent is farcical, and we are right back at oppression by the powerful of those with less power. In the case of my girlfriend and I, there are a number of reasons for me to be HoH and for her to be spanked. The first is that she has difficulty motivating and disciplining herself and needs help to do so. Things that she knows are good for her, like eating breakfast or going to bed at a reasonable hour, and things she puts off doing because they are unpleasant, she will do them if I tell her to do them and if she knows I will punish her if she doesn’t. The second is that at certain times (particularly if we argue) she starts to feel overwhelmed and out of control, panics and cannot function for some time. In these situation nothing I can say or do seems to help, except if I unambiguously take charge of the situation, thus relieving her of the responsibility to act until she has calmed down. The third is perhaps the strangest to me, but it makes her feel secure and cared for to have me looking out for her needs and willing to address them when she is unable to do so herself. For myself, well, I’ve always been bossy, so that works, and I thrive under responsibility (looking at my life, I’ve tended to be happiest when under huge pressure). I also find, bizarrely, that knowing there is one thing I have a great deal of influence over (my partner’s behaviour) helps combat feelings of powerlessness that otherwise can feed my tendency towards depression. It is also such a relief to have a structured way to deal with difficulties that otherwise might leave me feeling uncertain, unclear and insecure. (My girlfriend and I have joked that she always knows what to do but can’t bring herself to do it, whereas I often don’t know what to do but as soon as I do I get right on it, so together we make a functioning individual). These reasons for practising DD are COMPLETELY unrelated to gender, are individual and psychological. I once read in a DD book that although DD could be practised in any gender combination, the ‘dominant’ partner should be the one with the most male characteristics! You can imagine how I felt about *that*! ‘Active’, ‘dominant’ and ‘responsible’ are words to associate with masculinity apparently. Yuk. I’ll get back to my passive selfishness then.

    Ok, that was less tuppence and more like £1.56 :-P

  21. my wife spanks my bottom with her bathbrush when she sees that i am stressed usually over problems at his office. when i get home it is apprent in his attitude. knowing a stroke is forthcoming and on advise from my doctor, he is marched in to the bathroom, his bottom bared and over my knees given a real hard whipping. this procedure works.

  22. i never thought that spanking would be effective for married couples until i read an article about consentual spanking used fot pinishment. we signed an agreement and occasionly use this method to clear the air. i was the first victim i had misbehaved at a party with another woman. driving home , i confessed to what i did and agreed to get spanked hard by her. she tanned by bottom with her bathbrush and i learned a lesson not to ever repeat that misdoing. later on she forgot to pay thr electric bill and a man came to shut off the [power’ after paying a penalty i spamked her bottom and she knew not to ever forget again. these prompt actions quickly get the problem solved and preserved our marriage

  23. prometheustherebel Says:

    As Gwen Stefani would say…this S#!T is B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

  24. Ally Says:

    I am a lifelong feminist with a Ph.D. in economics and a minor in women studies. I also choose to be submissive to my mate. I would take great offense if anyone suggested to me that I did not fully understand my true interests. The fact of the matter is I have such a strong personality that I have managed to run a lot of men off. I’ve certainly always had submissive sexual fantasies, but one day I read the Taken in Hand site. There are many different points of view expressed there and almost anyone who wants this lifestyle can find themselves in its pages. What I discovered was that submission was the missing cog of my personality. I didn’t know how to submit to anything, not God or country. Learning to do this with my husband was one of the most enlightening and thrilling experiences of my life. He could not believe I could trust him with something so deep and personal. I could not believe how liberating it was to let someone else be in charge. In our daily lives, we are equals, intellectually, emotionally, paying the bills. But we have made a certain agreement — how “real” or “pretend”it is no longer matters to me. I have promised to obey him when it comes to sex or any matter in which he feels overwhelmed by the strength or irrationality of my emotions or when I am “out of control”. The results? One, I have never wanted sex more. I have never wanted to say no to him. In fact, he can’t ask for enough of it anymore. I did NOT use to be like this before. The other result? When we fight and it gets out of control and I’m being a bitch, he puts a stop to it. He puts me over his knee and spanks me long and hard. This is our agreement. It hurts, it works and it turns me on. I love him deeply for being my strong man. He loves me deeply for trusting him so much. He is a kind and gentle soul. I have never been happier in my life. My advice is, if you spend a lot of your time feeling unsexy, bitchy and fighting with your mate, I don’t care what gender or sexuality you are, maybe you should sit down with your SO and decide who needs to be putting who over their knee. Release the stress, have some fun! You won’t regret letting some of your ego go. Egotism is the poison of our society and it is one of the downsides of feminism for women. It threatens to remove balance from our souls.

  25. prometheustherebel Says:

    Just to add, I personally think any successful and meaningful romantic interaction can occur if both parties submit themselves to the other. Furthermore, Freud is having a party in the afterlife screaming, “I was right, I was right!” LOL

  26. Patty Says:

    I would like to learned more about this topic domestic dicipline, Is there a web site that you can enter and read more about it?

  27. Dee Says:

    To answer Patty’s question: If you just do a google search onthe phrase “domestic discipline” then it will return a whole bunch of hits you can explore. If you’re looking for a specifically Christian version, then google on “christian domestic discipline.” As I recall, Wikipedia also has an article on domestic discipline, with links.

    If you’re looking for a marriage where the man is the dominant partner, and they both agree on his right to use physical coercion or physical discipline to enforce his wife’s obedience to his will, then the Taken In Hand website is by far the best resource. It’s not connected with the bible or Christianity or any religion at all, so people of various spiritual paths — as well as atheists and agnostics — can feel at home there. But it is strictly about masculine dominance within a committed heterosexual marriage; and not at all about mutual “discipline” or the man and wife “switching” roles.

    (That’s not to say there is anything bad or wrong about those other preferences, but some of us do not find that personally attractive or appealing at all. Just as, I’m sure, many feminist lesbians would not find the enthusiastic affirmation of masculine leadership and male domination all that personally appealing to them. To me there is nothing sweeter or more erotic than a man’s forceful and loving domination of his worshipful wife. But to some people that would seem anything but sexy. Good thing there’s room in the world for everyone to seek out their own personal inclinations and preferences. Right?)

    http://www.takeninhand.com

  28. prometheustherebel Says:

    That is if we were ignorant enough to believe that leadership is simply a masculine trait…

  29. otbricki Says:

    Or if we were to believe that there is any such thing as masculine or feminine personality traits.

  30. Y’know, not to make too great a mockery of the fallacy that “in order to be a couple someone has to be in charge and someone has to follow,” but I could extend that concept to the workplace.

    Now, if only I can find an employer who understands the necessity of this concept and is willing to follow it up with the corporal discipline needed to make it effective. Then, with a female manager/supervisor in place it could be, “Oh, Ms. Davis, I’m sooooo sorry. Did I hand in those reports a day late. Oooh. What kind of punishment do you think I deserve?” I wonder if Ms. Davis will wear her leather to work?

  31. Lezfemme Says:

    I came to this page through an online search regarding disciplining wives. I was happy to see that there is at least one other couple who identify as lesbian who follows the DD HoH practice. I also identify as lesbian. I’m a transwoman in a relationship with a transman so effectively we are heterosexual but psychologically I identify as lesbian since I am not attracted to people born male who identify as such.

    I am searching for information regarding this because like Allison’s partner I have come to the realization that I attain a feeling of safety & being cared for when I am in submission to my partner. Discipline being part of it. I lack self discipline & without a means of reining me in I get out of control.

    I have been actively studying this for about a month now. I was very out of sorts & in general just being rude to my loved ones, afterwards feeling very remorseful & as I keep saying out of control. I apologized to my partner & asked him if he would spank me to get me back on track. He gave me a few perfunctory slaps to by bottom & sent me to bed. It did help but as I was lying there I in part flashed back to some of the beatings I received & in part realized that I was feeling more loved after he had done it. Another part was saying that I deserved much more. That is the first time I questioned why I would possibly subject myself to this again. I felt safe though. He went out of his way to not hurt me too much. After a little bit of pondering & the beginning of my quest for information I shared this need with him. We have been practicing this for about three weeks now & I have gotten back in control some. we are working on some things & it is really helpful for me to have to answer to him on so many things. I feel obligated to share that the majority of the discipline hasn’t’ come from physical punishment but in other ways that are more appropriate to what has gone wrong. i.e. he holds my debit card unless I actually need it. My spending was one of the things that were out of control. Linking this to an S&M thing seems very off the mark.

    The preponderance of information is from Christian or Islamic people. There is of course a lot of pornographic or otherwise commercial sites but typically they are fairly easy to spot.

    I really have been wondering why the heck I would actually want this. I just came from an abusive relationship where the woman that I was with was a very bad Hoh & in general not able to use the power given her in a good manner. We have been apart for a little over three years & I am now in a new relationship with someone else.

    I really have been wondering though if somehow the desire to submit could be related to a greater degree of femininity. My ex was in every way the more masculine of us & as I said my present primary partner is a transman. I have been a wife longer than I have been recognized as a woman. As the name implies I am a femme lesbian. For those who aren’t familiar with the term a femme lesbian pretty much acts & dresses in the more feminine manner. (somewhat over simplification but in general the idea). Each of them are more dominant than I am & I just naturally am submissive to each of them.

    To see this discussed in a feminist blog gives me hope that I can gain a perspective that isn’t based on doctrine but from an educated philosophical perspective.

  32. spanking is a very effective method to clear the air when a married couple ends up not able to get along with each other. my suggestion to my wife was taht when one of us misbehaves and gers the other very upset they agree to be spanked . the first occasion ended up with my asking for a whipping knowing the swift punishment by her using her hairbrush on my bare bottom quickly had me admitting i would never repeat my misdoing. it worked and sometime later she found herself over my knees getting her bottom bright red. this procedure is a very private matter and quickly gets the problem solved.

  33. s[metimes i feel that getting my bottom spanked by my wife is a quick method to keep me from doing things that get her very mad. then life is miserable for us both. wasting many hours agguing and enduring endless hours silence getsme to admut my misdoing and suggesting she gives me a spanking i wont forget. this happens and by the time it is over i spend the night downstairs with ;lotions and ice packs knowing that i never want a repeat session like i went through.

  34. JT Says:

    “What women isn’t more attracted to a dominant,carin,attentive man than a weak,preoccupied one?”

    Often it’s the weak preoccupied insecure men who need to shore up their self-esteem by imposing themselves physically on women.

  35. Barry Myers Says:

    My wife and I have been married for five years. She is a full time executive for a software firm and a feminist of the first order.
    She is a passionate advocate for women’s rights in third world countries, an active supporter of Amnesty International and we are both Christians.

    I can assure my fellow posters that there is no Biblical justification for disciplining your wife. The husband IS supposed to take the lead but by example, NOT by dictat, oppression or threat. A good husband will make his wife feel safe, loved, respected and deeply valued.

    Having said all that, my wife and I do enjoy a little role playing from time to time. She will play the naughty, coquettish, timid
    role and I play the dominant, stern, daddy role which inevitably means she ends up over my knee. This only ever happens in the bedroom, it is entirely consensual and incredibly intimate.

    Does this happen all the time? No. I let her decide when she is in the mood for such games and she communicates this to me by using a phrase that would sound innocent to everyone else but she and I know exactly what she means.

    This prevents this side of our relationship from ever becoming abusive. The biggest turn-on for me is how much she enjoys what we’re doing. If I thought for one second that she was not enjoying it, I would immediately lose interest.

    I share her values on women’s rights, greater equality and greater protections under the law but we have an intimate connection within our marriage that has its roots in total life-long commitment, complete security and trust and total adoration for each other.

    Anything outside of that has the potential to create all kinds of problems in the future. Love your wife as you love yourself, you can’t go wrong with that.

  36. prometheustherebel Says:

    Beautifully put Barry!

  37. mrs gonzo Says:

    my hubby spanks me when i do somthing wrong. this has nothing to do with any religious mumbo jumbo though (we are both devout atheists)

  38. lilly Says:

    barry to be honest you sound like a bit of a dick, first of all you are a christian, second you are a christian!

  39. anne jacobs Says:

    just to add my 2 cents, i dont think it is right to abuse either a partner or your children. there is never a justification for violence towards someone you love, regardless of what the bible says. if you truley love someone you would never want to inflict pain upon that person (unless requested for sexual gratification), people that do so really should consider seeking professsional help! Fortunatley i have a loving husband who would never dream of hitting me!

  40. just me Says:

    a new one just showed up christiandomesticdiscipline

  41. just me Says:

    sorry it christiandomesticdiscipline.net. I dont know I say to each there own.

  42. Katy Says:

    You know, I find it fascinating that there is a slew of information for heterosexual domestic discipline but not for lesbian or homosexual domestic discipline. It would be lovely to have an online community for lesbians in a DD relationship. I wish I could create something like that but I don’t have the patience or motivation to go through with it, maybe my partner should help with that. I too agree with Allison about having a knee jerk reaction to males being the HoH. I’ve had both a male Top and a female Top, and I much prefer the female.

    As to CDD, I once spent a couple hours researching it after coming across a site and my jaw was hanging for a lot of it. I’m sick and tired of religion being used as a defense for human desires and motives. “I will kill this person because God wants me to.” “I will punish and control my wife because that is the way God meant it to be.” I think that is utterly ridiculous. There are submissive men and women and Dominant men and women. It is not wrong to be either, you are who you are.

    Just my opinion on the topic. Maybe one day a motivated female will create a nice community for DD lesbians :-D

  43. Emma Says:

    I was brought up to be an independent woman by a feminist woman. Outside the home I’m strong and successful. Within it, I agree that someone should be the boss, and that someone should be my husband. For these reasons I agree with ‘domestic discipline’, not so much as a fetish-type thing (it’s too painful to be sexy!) but as a means of restoring the natural order after an argument or misconduct on my part.

    It seems to me that no amount of progress by the feminist movement can change human nature, and most women want to be led. The main contribution of the movement, however, is freedom of choice. If my husband applied discipline unreasonably, or in a bullying way, having a good job, a university degree and the ability to take out a mortgage would give me the option to do something about it. But actually, I couldn’t be happier :-)

  44. Caro Says:

    I absolutely agree with Emma on this. Taken-in-Hand, Domestic Discipline, etc. is a consensual arrangement between partners and is something that is not only accepted, but wanted by them both. It may not be a choice that everyone would make, but it’s as much a free choice as any other.

  45. Anonymous Says:

    I spank my wife for both pleasure and discipline we are a very happy. There are times when my wife will punish me with the cane. My wife is not to keen on being punished with the cane prefer my hand or strap. we love each other very much and enjoy all the above. Both Christians.

  46. Xena Says:

    This is the longest running post I’ve seen on this site, yet. You people must really enjoy this. Go ye forth!

    It’s not my thing, though. I’ve always preferred the sort of understanding where I’m standing and he’s under, but that’s just me. The point is to have fun.

  47. Rayblondie Says:

    Funny I never really understood punishment and can’t imagine punishing my wife or her me. She does spank me though as part of the bedroom activities. I wouldn’t be welcome on Taken-in Hand because it’s the other way around with us. The sites where the husband gets spanked are pathetic where the wife has a cross look. My wife has a smile when she does it. We are both christians but this is just my kink if you want to call it that.

  48. Anon Says:

    Teenage girls may try this. Even non-Christan ones. Ya’ll should watch what you spread on the net. My daughter reads this blog. She’s 15.

  49. Anon Says:

    But, whatever, she’s pro-abortion and we talked about birth control the other day.

  50. Rayblondie Says:

    Yes we should be careful what we spread on the net. We can’t stop the negative but we can encourage the positive. Although I have been frank I do believe sex should only be within marriage. It is more than a game. Actutally a bonding of a couples in a marriage.

  51. 0discordia Says:

    I don’t mean to presume, but I have to ask:

    Has everyone who has been heralding the benefits of one form of ‘domestic discipline’ or another interrogated the genealogy of ‘the domestic environment’, ‘domestication en generale’ and the dualistic roles of sub/dom?

    Considering (even the possibility of) fundamentally abusive origins of these roles and structures, I am genuinely confused as to why people would advocate them in semi-political manners in public forums?

    My response to investigating and learning about the historic, cultural and conceptual origins of punishment, abuse and civilisation has led me to adopt an anarchist primtivist position in my politics and my personal life. I can perhaps understand why people might continue to adopt archist structures in their personal lives, but I’m genuinely confused as to some of the politics I see dotted around. Do any of you guys know something I don’t?

  52. Rayblondie Says:

    Can you phrase that a bit simpler Ordiscoria. It seems that you are speaking from a historical perspective that some of us may not be versed in.

  53. Xena Says:

    Rayblondie: Let me see if I can re-phrase Ordiscordia’s question/commentary in “plain English”. Ordiscordia: please correct me if my translation isn’t quite right.

    O’s key question seems to point to a glaring contradiction between the act of posting on a feminist site, given the tenets of feminism as a tool for deconstructing patriarchial mores concerning male domination at nearly every level of interaction as “right/correct”, and the professed enjoyment of the “spankees” on this site in taking on a “slavish” role in a “master/slave” type relationship.

    As far as the genaeology/history of the domestic, O may be going all the way back to the edicts of Constantine and referring to a long study of marriage and the family, but her(?) reference to dom/sub dualism that led her to embrace an anarchistic/primitivist lifestyle would suggest either a Marxist feminist or Foucaultean slant on her assessment of power structures through history. To give both of those theorists a proper AND concise nod would be better left to someone with more expertise than myself, so I’ll draw on Clifford Geertz for a more “catchy” definition of the dichotomy (socially constructed set of binary opposites) to which I believe Ordiscordia is referring. I’ll explain anarchism/primitivism as an alternative in the following paragraph.

    Male dominated reasoning (again, I’ll leave the discourse on Plato, Aristotle, the host of medieval religious scholars, Descartes, etc. to the experts) has traditionally divided the world into categories that can be boiled down to a handy little chart that looks something like this:

    Left/subordinate Right/Dominant
    Female Male
    Earth/Nature Sky/Culture
    Body/childbirth/menstruation Mind/reason/”purity”
    Moon/night/mystery Sun/day/clarity
    Original sin/serpent/Lillith Son of Adam/closer to
    imperfection/that which decays the ideal or eternal
    Prone to infection by “evil” Agent of God/rightful
    destroyer of evil

    This system sets up a relationship of abuse and victimization that is difficult to change because its proponents claim that the system is “ordained by God”. Other attributes have been piled into the lefthand category throughout history including “lower social class”, “black/brown/red”, “sodomizers”, etc. depending on the political agenda of the dominant group of the time period in question. The process is known as “othering”, and it is one of the stated goals of feminism to correct the imbalances that come as a result of this type of reasoning.

    Anarchists seek to drastically but peacefully alter our usual approaches to dividing labour and assigning authority, to a model that is de-centralized with an agrarian/earth-friendly focus rather than a heirarchical, “divine king” dominated competetive conqueror model. Mahatma Ghandi is probably history’s best remembered anarchist. Noam Chomsky is another well-known proponent. Anarchists are pacifists and many (all?) are vegetarians/vegans.

    I’m guessing that as an anarchist, Ordiscordia finds violence as foreplay to be thoroughly abhorrent?

  54. Xena Says:

    Dingit! The site wouldn’t keep my columns in my handy chart separate! I’m sure you get the idea?

  55. Rayblondie Says:

    Basically I take it that you are saying that there is a dichotomy for a feminst woman to take on a role of being dominated in a DD relationship.

    I think it depends. It is only in the realm of punishment that these roles come into operation. If one likes being punished then they are assuming a subjective role. This can be male or female. If the activity doesn’t come into a punishment area then it asumes a purely sexual role. Some are switched on by this but it doesn’t mean they are being subjective.

  56. Xena Says:

    I wasn’t saying that was my position. I was just trying to explain some of the jargon that Ordiscordia was using. Judging from some of the comments from some of the bloggers, it appears that this post gets more attention from non-academics than others on the site. No point in scaring people away with 50 cent words, right?

    My view on the matter is in short&sweet #47, above. I allow whichever partner has the most expertise in whatever area of the relationship take the upper hand. In the kitchen, it’s usually him. In the bedroom, it’s usually me. Of course, I haven’t been in a relationship in a very long time now. The next thirty-something I date may be altogether different from the twenty-somethings I dated. I DO NOT believe in marrying the first person that gives me a cheap thrill for the sake of “propriety”. Call it a condom for my heart, we have to “hang out” for at least 3 months, and live together for at least 2 years before I’ll even dare hope it might be serious enough for marriage.

    Like I said in #54, I was just trying to translate what I thought Ordiscordia was trying to say for the non-academics on the site, but also to improve my own grasp on what I’m studying. I hope she’ll correct me if my translation’s not quite right.

  57. Rayblondie Says:

    I didn’t for a moment think it was your position Xena. Also I didn’t kow that this was a site for intellectuals.

    I don’t think you will like my view but here it is.

    I don’t believe in sex before marriage although I did do it before I came to this view.

    I don’t believe in dominating my wife. Therefore nobody punishes anyone.

    I think the problems we are talking about only come where one wants punishment. I think that is usually because of childhood problems that have become sexualised. One of the reasons this comes about is through a child being punished and awakened sexually too early through it. She or he then associates punishment with sex and cannot seem to seperate them. That is not the only reason but one of them. I nearly fell into this trap through a childhood experience but managed to evade it.

    DD is usually about one being subject to the other and about punishment for falling out of line. A woman being subject to a man is something else. My wife tries to be subject to me because she believes that is right. That doesn’t mean I dominate her.

    There are some who are aroused by spanking but when punishment is added to that then there are deep problems within a marriage. The spanking itself without punishment can just be a glorified massage

  58. Xena Says:

    That’s true. I know there are huge differences in the way that people are biologically “wired” to experience pain&pleasure. I don’t judge what gets other consenting adults off. Just because I’m thin-skinned and high-strung enough to take a slap as an invitation to “open a can of whoop-ass”, it’s not my right to “should” on other people.

    I’ve had a little experience with mild dom. I rather enjoyed the way my ex thanked me for his G(olden)S, but leading him around on a leash was a little weird, and I had trouble stifling my giggles when he put his buff tatooed body into my lingerie.
    BDSM is just not my thing.

    If you& your wife enjoy it, then keep doing it. Pleasure strengthens marital bonds.

    For now, I’ll settle for technologically enhanced abstinence.

  59. Xena Says:

    NOTE: I gave him his GS. NOT the reverse. (EW!)

  60. Mary Says:

    I was a teenager in the 1960’s when I discovered that my father spanked my mother. They obviously hadn’t heard me come in and I was shocked to see mum bending over the settee being spanked with a slipper. I was crying more than mum but she calmed me down and explained that it was quite all right. She said that dad was the wage earner and she stayed at home to look after the house. She had been extravagent with her housekeeping money and overspent and he was right to punish her. She obviously accepted this and I got used to her being spanked. I have now been married for 23 years and although a wife’s role today is different than the one my mother knew I accept that there are times when I need to be spanked and like my mother did I have no problem in accepting a spanking from my husband. Sometimes the old values are still applicable.

  61. Jennifer Says:

    I’ll be spanking my wife, too, for similar reasons…and then some.

  62. Rayblondie Says:

    Mary can I ask a question?

    When you are punished is that a sexual thing or is it something else?

  63. Mary Says:

    I am spanked as a punishment but am aroused by being made to feel like a naughty schoolgirl again. I can’t explain this but it makes being punished more acceptable.

  64. Rayblondie Says:

    Thank you for your thoughts Mary.

    I think the punishment side could be a negative, not the actual spanking. That is alright I think. Sometimes people get aroused before the time in childhood and then associate it with punishment. It can be enjoyed without it being a punishment. I believe it can be seperated and enjoyed in an ordinary way in marriage without a play on punishment which can be a sign of low self esteem sometimes.

    I have observed that most of those who add punishment with it have had a difficult upbringing where there has possibly been a lack of nurture to a certain extent.

    Blondie

  65. needsspanked Says:

    wow, I agree with DD. I have a yearning for it, both sexually and non sexually. I wish my hubby would take me by the arm, March me to the bedroom,toss me over his knee and bust my behind. I feel sometimes I could really use it but am to shy to tell him. Ive read up on this and I dont see it as abuse at all. And the domince of a man is a real turnon!

  66. Rayblondie Says:

    Why don’t you ask him to do it? That what I asked my wife. I am head of the house and she submits to me but in that way I am different.

    All I said was can you spank me and she did. I had been thinking about it for days. Now it is a normal part of the bedroom scene, when there’s nobody else around that is. I tried to coach her into it but she’s neve going to be that way, so we know where we stand now. It actually leads to great sex for us. Before there was always sort of something missing as good as it was. I am glad she now knows the worse or shall we say unconventional side of me, but that was 20 years ago. The main thing is to not let it totally dominate the bedroom all the time but it does have a regular place in our bedroom anyhow.

  67. Curious Says:

    Can anyone recommend good videos on spanking? Most of what is out there is too intense for my wife and it turns her off.

  68. Blondie Says:

    I wouldn’t recommend any videos on spanking. You don’t need it. It may serve as porn and would be detrimental to your marriage. Just go with what she needs or you need. You are the best judges of that, not some video.


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